Giving feedback – Preparing for the feedback session
Preparing yourself to give feedback, gaining control of the situation before you start. Creating a checklist to help you give the most effective feedback you can.
This video is hosted by Jerry Brown and Vince Coombs
Preparing for the feedback session transcript
Jerry Brown:
Hey. Hello again, everybody, and welcome back to the series from MPI Learning called, Giving Feedback. And I’m delighted to re‑introduce Vince Coombs, one of our most experienced principal consultants and the guy who’s been sharing his knowledge with us in this series so far. So what are we covering today, Vince?
Vince Coombs:
We’re looking today, Jerry, at getting yourself mentally prepared to actually give that feedback. We’re not quite going to give examples yet, but we’re going to make sure that we’ve got some ticks in boxes. We know, right, it’s a bit of a checklist set that says, “Okay, here’s how the land should lie before you do this.” And you’ve got control of this, so it’s about getting control of the situation before you get stuck in.
Jerry Brown:
Okay. Very good. So, how’d you want to start, what do you want to share with us today?
Vince Coombs:
I think let’s look at some core principles that really apply pretty much all the time, but they are only principles because we’re dealing with human beings and everyone’s a bit different. We need to acknowledge the differences, et cetera, but there are certain fundamentals that really don’t/shouldn’t change. They’re there all the time. So in my head, you need to start off being clear about what is it you’re trying to achieve? What are your expectations? What are your objectives? Be clear about that.
Vince Coombs:
I believe that the best way to make sure that is clear is to write it down. People go, “I don’t need to write it down, I know what it is in my head.” Okay, well, if it’s clear and written in your head, just write it down anyway. And it’s amazing how often you’ve just struggled with that exact word and you realize actually that you’re not quite as clear as you could be. And writing it down is a good thing for clarity, because the clearer you are, the clearer your messaging in this kind of thing.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
So that’s where I’d start, I suppose. In terms of knowing when you’re going to give feedback, by spotting the opportunity as a principal; one of my favorite little acronyms is, MBWA, which stands for, management by walking about. You need to spot what people are doing. You need to know what’s happening. If you can base your feedback on firsthand evidence, that’s the best.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
So get out off your backside, walk around your offices, talk to the people, see what’s going on. Notice stuff, be there.
Jerry Brown:
Very good.
Vince Coombs:
There’s two things, it gives you opportunities to collect firsthand evidence, and also there’s just chance for them to know you’re there. And that’s being appreciated. The objective of MBWA is that it should be about preventing issues rather than resolving problems.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
Here’s something I notice, this could become a problem, let’s nip it in the bud. And that’s when the best feedback’s given, because if you miss that and miss the next one, and then it’s got a bit out of hand and now it’s not making a lot of noise, so someone brings it to you, now it’s almost a problem where feedback is less impactful, it’s gone a bit beyond that. Someone’s got to put a proper bandaid on it now. So that’s where we’re at.
Vince Coombs:
So we’re out there, we are noticing what’s going on. We’re not looking for problems and we’re not looking for great stuff, we’re just noticing stuff and going, “I can give some feedback on that, I can give some feedback on that, I’ve not talked to them for a couple of weeks, so let me just stand back and listen in for a while, or have a chat and a little conversation and ask a few probing questions.”
Vince Coombs:
So I’ll go, “Okay, that’s interesting. You’ve taken an approach there that I didn’t expect, talk to me about that.” I can have a discussion and create a subject for some feedback. So overall, if you do that, if you get out of there and you’re nipping things in the bud, you’re catching things early, hopefully, then using a coaching approach works really, really well. And when I say a coaching approach in my head, that means it’s more ask than tell.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah, very important.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. It’s getting them to engage, because this is their feedback for their development, it’s not you smacking them on the wrist.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Occasionally, we might smack them on the wrist, but even that can be done in a more subtle way where they go, “I got that one wrong, didn’t I, boss?” Sort of thing.
Jerry Brown:
A fair cop, situation.
Vince Coombs:
Hands up. Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Okay. So what skills do you need to do this one, this coaching approach. Coaching approach is about asking questions, and it’s about asking questions predominantly that are going to be open questions, by which we mean that they’re going to get them talking. You’re going to need the odd closed question whereby the answer’s yes or no, just to check a few things, but mostly you want them to do the talking. In my world, if I was critiquing someone’s coaching technique, I would be looking for the other person to be doing 75, 80% of the talking, whereas a coach I’m doing less than 20%, sort of thing.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Sometimes even less than that.
Jerry Brown:
And why would you do that, what’s the benefit of that?
Vince Coombs:
Because this is about them understanding what’s going on, and it’s about me understanding what’s in their head.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
I can’t position my language or my feedback properly if I don’t really understand how they perceive it, how they judge what they’ve done, what they’ve noticed about what they’ve done. This person might have done something that I’ve gone, “That can’t happen again,” but they might just perceived it entirely differently, because they haven’t noticed that customer’s expression, or they haven’t realized that we’ve changed a rule last month and we’ve forgotten about it. Well then, so I need to find out where they’re at. And I don’t want to tell them that, I’d like them to go, “Oh, yeah.” They want to own it.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah. Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
That’s it, their feedback, not my feedback. Which means this, if they’re only talking for 80% of the time, and it might only be a three, four or five-minute conversation.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
If they’re talking 80% of the time, you have got to be a flipping good listener, proper listening, which doesn’t mean you’ve just stopped talking for a while-
Jerry Brown:
No.
Vince Coombs:
It means you’re actually proper listening. This is a skill that’s never taught in schools and I believe it should be. It is a skill, because what most of us have a tendency to do is have an internal dialogue. And as soon as we’ve got asking ourselves questions and think, “Oh, that’s interesting, I didn’t realize that,” as soon as you’ve done that inside, that moment you stop listening, because your attention can either be outside or inside.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
So it has to be outside. So just let it flow and talk. My top tip would be to be repeating all they are saying inside your own head.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), and maybe actually playing it back to them occasionally.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah, and when you play it back, play it back to them… Some people would put, like to paraphrase-
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
“Are you saying this?”
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Or someone might say, “So when you say this, this, this, and this,” which are their exact words-
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
“Are you really referring to something like that, that, and done before,” so you’re capturing a principle, and understand we’re in the same world, we’re in the same place.
Jerry Brown:
A mutual agreement on meaning.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. We’re both looking in the same direction. It’s not me thinking, “It’s dark over there,” and you’re going, “No, it’s not, it’s light over there.” It’s that sort of stuff.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah. Crucial.
Vince Coombs:
This requires, especially for some people, this requires you to be patient and calm and engaged in rapport.
Jerry Brown:
Empathetic.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. Empathetic, not sympathetic, which I think is an important distinction. It’s almost if done something really valuable and you’re about to give feedback, it still needs to be empathetic based upon fact, logical, structured. It’s not just, “Well done.”
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
It’s more than that. “Well done,” is great. But-
Jerry Brown:
Sorry.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
I was just going to say, and I think there’s a principle that would have come from the beginning of the process, way before this, that they are orientated to this actual methodology as part of the way of working. And they’re open to being involved in feedback as a positive, a well‑intended career, helping, supporting, developing, a reason for doing it.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
So they’re not going to be going, “Who do you think you are giving me feedback?” And I suppose there are occasionally, people who can’t themselves demonstrate patience and engage with the process and say, “Oh, why don’t you just tell me what you want me to do?” And I guess maybe we’ll come to that later.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah, because that person might just want to get it over and done with.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
It just means they’re probably ain’t listening. Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah, and they might not be in the right frame of mind.
Vince Coombs:
Exactly. See one of the things about behavior, and what we’re trying to do here is get someone to do something a little differently.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Or to repeat a really good behavior, but certainly to make sure we got the right one. Now all of our behaviors are true choice-
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
Because even if we don’t like doing it, we’ve still chosen to do it, even if I resent it, it’s still a decision I’ve made because I could decide not to do it.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
“I know the boss wants me to do it, but sod it.” That’s still a choice you’ve made- [crosstalk 00:10:46].
Jerry Brown:
Or I don’t feel confident to do it.
Vince Coombs:
That’s another option. It could be confidence, it could be lack of skill.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
There’s lots of reasons.
Jerry Brown:
I haven’t done it for a while.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. And that’s held in our belief system. What do I believe about this task? I believe that I can do this. I believe I can’t. I believe it’s right. I believe it’s wrong. I believe it’s difficult. I believe it’s easy. So the beliefs that I hold drive my behavioral decisions and therefore, as a coach in feedback, I need to be aware that if I’m getting resistance, it’s almost certainly because they believe something that’s getting in their way. And I know sometimes it’s got a little more sophisticated than just, “Great job,” to find out what belief they’re bringing in here, because until we change a belief, they won’t change their behavior.
Jerry Brown:
Agreed.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. Cool. So by getting a belief, and sometimes a lot of people who don’t understand what their beliefs are, a lot of people are afraid to get involved with them, which is why we need to start going back to what we talked today, which is, let’s make sure we listened, understood, so we can actually empathize, connect with them and go, “This is not about beating you up, this is not about scoring points, this is about sharing common territory, moving forward, getting you to win so that we all win.” That’s it about, really.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
So there we go. I think it’s worth mentioning is, is that if you’re doing your MBWA, you’re imagining by walking about, you spot someone doing something good, what you could say is, “Great job, Jack.” And Jack thinks, “Oh, great job.” Now, does Jack really know what exactly was it you spotted that you appreciated? Because you didn’t tell him what it was.
Jerry Brown:
No.
Vince Coombs:
He might think the way he did something X, was this but it could be something entirely different. So I’m also doing it publicly and instantly, means that if I come up with MBWA and say, “Come and have a word with me,” you’ve now separated your feedback, response to something good, and those response to something, not so good, by going public/private, bad differentiation, because it means that as soon as I say, “Can you come have a word with me,” they know it’s a bit of a telling off.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
And their colleagues and mates also overheard that. So my recommendation is, all feedback, every time you’re going to sit down and give someone proper feedback as valuable, “Just come over with me,” and then they can choose how much of that story they tell about this. Their colleagues won’t know what’s been said, and they can choose how much of that to share.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
And they might go, “Okay.” Some people get really embarrassed when they get public praise. I worked with a man years ago, a really long time ago, a talented guy, a lovely bloke. I actually was in the sales environment in top, a monthly meeting and award ceremony, I think he got a bit of a prize.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
And Brian wasn’t there. And the reason Brian wasn’t there, because Brian hated standing up in front of people receiving accolades. Hated it.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
And so he just didn’t turn up. So see what everyone’s like, if you love the old light shining on you, it doesn’t mean everyone loves the light shining on them, really. Cool. So let’s talk about process.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
So we know we got our mindset. We know where we’re at, sort of what we’re going to do. We’ve spotted something, I’m now going to engage with them, we need a structure, because if you ad-lib every time, it’s like anything, it’s like trying to hit a golf ball, if you can hold the club differently every time and stand differently every time, you’re never going to get good at it. You got to hold it exactly the same way and get good at doing it that way. Sometimes it doesn’t even matter which way you do it, as long as it’s the same every time, because you can get good at it.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
So here’s a process. It isn’t the only process, but it’s a structure, it’s been proven to work, I’ve been using it for years and years and years, and it covers it, to put ticks in most boxes most of the time.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Bearing in mind, sometimes it ain’t going to work, but I’ve not discovered one that works every single time, anyway.
Jerry Brown:
I’m all in. Go. What is It?
Vince Coombs:
So, it might sound a little bit like an opera, it’s an acronym. A-I-D-A. Aida. We’re not gonna sing it, you’ll be glad to know.
Jerry Brown:
Thank you.
Vince Coombs:
So the first A, is about action.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
So what we’re going to do on the first A is, describe the action to which the feedback applies. What have you been doing that I’ve noticed? You did this, said this, pushed that button, here’s the sequence, this, this, ABCD, here’s what you did. Can we agree that is what you did? That’s the subject of the feedback. So there’s no misunderstanding between me and the recipients about what we’re talking about here. I’ve put a boundary around it and I’ve described it, “So that’s what you said, that’s what they reacted, do you agree that, that’s what happened?” “Yes.” “Good.”
Vince Coombs:
So then you’ve done something, which is great. So now I need to explore what’s the impact of that action, what occurred because you did that? What’s the customer feeling now? What do they believe now? What do I feel about this, now I’ve noticed it? How are you feeling about the reaction you got from the customer? What are your colleagues going to be thinking if they noticed and overheard it? Et cetera. So let’s explore the impact of that action.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
I’m not going to make a big deal, let’s be clear about it, though.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
So your customer might be thinking, the customer’s not very happy now. So what caused him to be unhappy? Let’s explore it. You might need to explore this a bit, but the idea is to explore the impact, have a little bit of a conversation without pre-judging. Bearing in mind that one thing that you maybe didn’t or are not able to get when you noticed is happening, is intent. So maybe your worker’s intent is hidden to you, you need to expose the intent. When you said that, what were you trying to do?
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
What was your thought behind it, and what actually happened? Because they could be different there. So that’s a little bit of time you spent on that. So we’ve agreed that, we’ve said, “That’s what you did, that’s the impact it had. If you’re going to do again, what do we need to do?” That’s the, D.
Jerry Brown:
Right.
Vince Coombs:
And if it was a good thing, if what you did was best practice and the client is happy as a Sandman, what we need to do is repeat it exactly. So it’s dead simple. So just do it exactly, again, in fact, maybe there’s a scratch it, can I put in a refinement and put in the sophistication- even better than that.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
So we’re building on a strength now.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
So you’ve got action, is what you did, the impact of what you did, this is what you do next time.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
“Do you agree with that?”
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
And I don’t want to leave them thinking about what they’re doing.
Jerry Brown:
Right.
Vince Coombs:
Because you also read in some books, that’s an acronym, AID. What I find works better is going onto the next, which is advantage, what advantage of that behavior, what’s the advantage of doing that? So you’ve done this, that was the impact, we’ve decided on a new, do, a new behavior set.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
If you do that, what advantage does it give you?
Jerry Brown:
Yeah. Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Where it stops the negative impacts here, and it grows things over there. Which means, when we part company, their final thought is usually about, why I’m going to do it differently, not, what I’m going to do.
Jerry Brown:
And how it benefits me, and in what way.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. So the advantage is to them personally, advantage to the customer, advantage to their teammates, advantage to the manager, advantage to the company. Let’s explore and express and agree the advantages. Because now they should be feeling, again, if this is all a positive conversation, they should be feeling pretty cockahoo.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
If they’ve got something wrong in the first place, I’ve taken their attention from, okay, you got something, you did something that didn’t work, you’ve got a new plan of action and you know why you’re going to do it. So if there’s a bit of effort involved, and usually change involves effort, you’ve got some energy to drive through the effort to put the new action in place.
Jerry Brown:
Yes. I like it. AIDA.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
Thank you.
Vince Coombs:
So then, having gone through those four stages, you just say, I personally will go, “Okay, so this taught me through what you are going to do,” I get them to talk it back to me. Because that means, they sort of own it then.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
I know they’ve got it. I know they’ve not been misheard. I know they’ve not been switched off thinking about tomorrow’s football match. I know they’ve actually taken it onboard, and it gives me the chance to tweak or modify it, if they’ve not quite got it right.
Jerry Brown:
Oh. And it also demonstrates understanding.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
And the one person that needs to understand is the doer.
Vince Coombs:
Absolutely. So now I can have confidence that says, you’re going to go away, I know what you’re meant to do, you know what you’re meant to do, you know that I know, which is often sometimes important as well. And I might even go as far as saying, when you’ve done it, let me know.
Jerry Brown:
Perfect.
Vince Coombs:
I might do, I might not always do that.
Jerry Brown:
No. Why not?
Vince Coombs:
Because it feels like Big Brother, sometimes.
Jerry Brown:
Okay. A bit of trust.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah, it’s about trust. But I’m sure it’d be great. Now what people would report back is, if it’s been done well with some people, not everybody, they will come and tell you what they’ve done when they’ve done it, unbidden.
Jerry Brown:
Especially if it’s gone well.
Vince Coombs:
Yes.
Jerry Brown:
They can’t wait to tell you.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
Bang, bang, bang.
Vince Coombs:
“Can also feedback, please?”
Jerry Brown:
Yeah, “Can I just tell you what’s just happened?”
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
It works.
Vince Coombs:
Absolutely.
Jerry Brown:
It’s a great feeling as well for everyone involved when that happens.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. Absolutely. And again, it gives you the opportunity to give them praise, which is not a bad thing-
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
After praises. And so, “Here’s my stretch for you, can you find a way to make it even slicker than that?
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
And would you mind talking about it at our next monthly meeting?”
Jerry Brown:
Yeah. And also to correct any kind of performance discrepancy error or fault that was either consciously or unconsciously getting into the way that they do things.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
So that correction improves performance and that everybody feels good when that’s happening. It builds confidence.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. So then we have a structure.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
And it’ll feel a bit clunky at first.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
But the great thing about structures is that if you repeat it numerous times, it seems to get, it embeds.
Jerry Brown:
Exactly.
Vince Coombs:
And it probably takes three to five iterations for it to click into place.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
But usually, whatever you’ve been doing in the past, your ability to give feedback probably goes down a little bit, the first one or two times, then it picks up, and by the time you get to number five, you’re better and you keep on getting better. It’s a tool, I guess.
Jerry Brown:
Really good. A gift.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
No less.
Vince Coombs:
That’s it. So it’s about just then staying in rapport, being flexible, noticing their reaction, and accepting the fact that sometimes you’ll give it your absolute best shot and it won’t quite land right. But then again, if were perfect, we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in, would we?
Jerry Brown:
A bit of bravery involved, keep trying.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah.
Jerry Brown:
Keep working at it. And that in itself hones the skill, and both parties get used to it, don’t they?
Vince Coombs:
It becomes part of a culture.
Jerry Brown:
It does, and it becomes something that you perhaps look forward to, and actually enjoy because you know it’s going to bring about improvement. And that was that cultural thing that I was sort of referring to earlier, where people are open to it, they understand that this is going to happen, and I’m ready to it, I’m ready for it, in fact, bring it on. Help me.
Vince Coombs:
So things that add sort of variables, so to think at the end is, having been through the process and finished it. Let’s take an example, so you’ve now noticed, this was something that wasn’t quite right, and the amendment needed making. Maybe they need a bit of learning or maybe they need to, you’ve set something up where they can go and sit next to someone highly experienced so they can do it off them, or something’s been set up because it wasn’t quite right.
Jerry Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vince Coombs:
There’s was a danger that some people feel a bit aggrieved, not always, but some people do. And then your job as the giver of feedback is to notice their response to your feedback. So some people are uncomfortable, they feel embarrassed by it. Some people strangely enough seem to get dismissive about positive feedback. You’re telling them they’re doing a good job, “Oh, I know.” Because they have a lot of what’s called a strong internal reframe of reference. They’re able to look at their own performance and go, “I’m doing a bloody good job here, I don’t need telling.”
Vince Coombs:
So you need to be aware of, “Who have I got?” now I can refine it and now I can start going, “I’ve got a tool in my hand here, I’ve got a four-letter framework to hang it on, but when I do it to Jack, for a good thing, is not quite the way I do it to Jill, because she has got different needs.” So your learning process is how do I use this simple four-step feedback tool to make sure it’s absolutely giving my team, each individual team member the best thing. And don’t be surprised how varied reactions are.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah. But I think if you work on the relationship with your team, those people that you’re going to be giving feedback to, if the relationship is strong and part of that is born out of regular feedback, both ways, it becomes part of the culture, it becomes part of the expectation, and you can therefore potentially avoid those sorts of prickly responses through the quality of the relationships with people that we work with.
Vince Coombs:
Absolutely. I think, so we’re going almost right back to the beginning of the session is, we’re going back to this intent, what’s the purpose of feedback? The purpose of feedback is to move people forward.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
So your intent is to help.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
Now, and sometimes it feels uncomfortable being helped, but that’s the intent.
Jerry Brown:
Yes.
Vince Coombs:
It’s just like when a doctor resection your broken wrist, it hurts, but the intent’s that you’re going to get well.
Jerry Brown:
Very good. Very good. So anything else to add?
Vince Coombs:
I think, well, the next thing we look at is to look at giving a couple of examples, working through a couple of scripts, talking about why certain words were chosen, what certain words to avoid, how people might react, how you might need to modify your approach depending upon the reaction you’re getting.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
And how you need to sometimes loop, when you get blocked, if you got a block at the, do, stage, in terms of change, how to specifically look at modifying someone’s underlying belief.
Jerry Brown:
Yeah.
Vince Coombs:
Until we change that bit, we can’t change the belief.
Jerry Brown:
Yes. And knowing where you are and when to modify, or have options.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. I mean, it moves from being a feedback towards coaching, sometimes almost on the edge of counseling. Don’t get involved with counseling unless you’re qualified to give counseling. But the whole objective is to get performance right and keep HR out of it, because it’s not necessary.
Jerry Brown:
No.
Vince Coombs:
Yeah. I’m sorry, my HR department, but there are other things you’re good at, we’ll leave each other later.
Jerry Brown:
I couldn’t possibly comment. So we’ve got a fourth module coming up, which we’ll get to.
Vince Coombs:
Yep.
Jerry Brown:
In the meantime, thank you ever so much once again, for sharing your wisdom, skill and knowledge with us, in this series. You can find it on the MPI Learning website in the learning lounge section, along with the previous video modules that we’ve created. And we look forward to engaging with you again, if you choose to seek it out, a little bit more information from us when we do the next one in the next week or so. So thanks again, Vince, and that’s it for today.
